I wanted to stay away from this Boris Nemtsov assassination, but since the golden boy of rape and pillage of Russia in 1990s got killed (and I am sorry--I hate people dying for any reasons), I have to make some small points. The only thing I have to say here is--Qui Bono. It is MH-17 all over again--a hysteria in the Beltway, better chances for all kinds of bizarre legislatures passing, including arming Ukraine. But here we have to also go to the OODA Loop and ask ourselves--how are those sanctions working out against Russia? I imply nothing (so far), until the investigation comes up with more or less coherent answers, but I will reiterate one point: the only person who stands between Moscow's "liberal elite" being pitch-forked or hung on the lamp posts all over Russia and this "elite's" Western grants' consumption IS Putin. Plus, United States was boringly predictable in applying its template of "democratic" coups. Do I say that it is West behind this provocation? NO! In fact, this could have been anyone's (wink, wink) "operation" but the truth is, for Russia to kill this boy Nemtsov, while having a moment of national unity not seen since Great Patriotic War and Putin enjoying an overwhelming support of population, come on--be real. The oldest trick in the "regime change" and false flag book. "Heavenly Hundred" anyone?
I have a suspicion that MVD (FSB?) guys following this Navalny guy are there for his protection. As for the United States, which has a glorious tradition of assassinating its own Presidents (forget some second rate hack like Nemtsov), it is really funny to raise a voice on the issue of some........(fill in blanks yourself) being killed for the "greater good" which comes down to Qui Bono, and Russia is, certainly, not in this list.
I saw the news on zerohedge and immediate thought was, vultures gonna circle. I turned on TV, CNN and bingo. Here they were blowing this thing up everybodyès arses :) They have lionized Boris to position of the daddy of Russian democracy which as we know it is occupied by Kissa Vorobiyaninov :)
ReplyDeleteBut truly, enjoying 85% approval ratings Putin needs to get rid of someone who enjoyed 1% support and could not get a single seat in DumaÉ
So the CIA did this to make Russia look bad?
ReplyDeleteAs of lately, I didn't think Russia needed any help in that department; Putin has it all under control.
Russia has more supporters than you can imagine.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, as does America, but that doesn't answer my question.
ReplyDeleteYou should start from improving your reading comprehension. You either missed this:
ReplyDeleteDo I say that it is West behind this provocation? NO! In fact, this could have been anyone's (wink, wink) "operation"
or this:
"Heavenly Hundred" anyone?
But your reaction is peculiar from purely psychological point of view, to say the least. Nowhere in the text was it implied that it is West, let alone CIA. Could they do that? Absolutely, US "credit history" in instigating the most abhorrent events globally is well known and well documented. But the text was implying two major suspects--both are not West or USA. But how would you know when, obviously, your "understanding" of Russia is formed either by US propaganda or by reading all kind of crap on the fringe forums.
You do have issues with reading comprehension. Concerns about "political assassinations", so actively expressed by D.C., sound simply preposterous, when one begins to consider American history with assassinating or trying to assassinate own Presidents. Do you need further "translation" of the text?
ReplyDeleteNo, my comprehension is just fine, but perhaps you should start thinking in English, as you are writing in English, instead of composing your sentences (in your head) in Russian and then putting those thoughts to paper in English.
ReplyDeleteWhen you do that, meanings and nuances change radically.
Russian, transliterated into English tends to introduce boundless ambiguity that is not there in your native Russian.
So, your intended meaning was that he could have been killed by anyone, and that "anyone" could just have easily included the CIA (or one of our other intelligences services) as it could have have been the FSB/MVD?
Why É What Putin would gain by ordering killing of someone who is not a threat at all and in front of Kremlin walls at that É :)
ReplyDeleteDo you really think Putin is that dumbÉ If he wanted Boris out of the way, he could have been dealt with the way of thousand political and other cuts. The guy was walking political corpse and no threat to anyone.
No one knows for now who killed or ordered his murder but I am 100% sure Putin has nothing to do with that. CIA or any other agency looks like a higher probability suspect in this case as US has something to gain and Putin has something to lose. Also, Putin is not kind of a guy who does things without calculating few steps ahead. As I stated in my previous post below, even me, the moment I saw the news on zerohedge immediately turned to CNN to check . I do not think Putin is less intelligent than me.
I think Putin is a thug and thinks like a gangster, most of whom only have an above average intelligence.
ReplyDeleteThey got where they are because they are ruthless opportunists, not because of their IQs.
I think you are wrong and your thinking is not only bad, it is dangerous because it is what your guys at the top who are pure degenerates think. They will have all of us killed by thinking like this and the worst behaving on what they think. There was never that Soviet leader was treated the way Putin is. Can you imagine what would happen were Khrushchev to be called a thug or crazy and treated as suchÉ
ReplyDeleteI think America overall is out of her collective mind.
Much of my "knowledge" of Russia comes from you and a few Russian friends of mine.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying I should watch MORE CNN?
No, I don't believe that anymore.
ReplyDeleteI actually think their (our guys at the top) assessment of Putin is more accurate than I thought it was just 6-months ago.
I'm beginning to conclude that I was much too benevolent toward him, in my earlier attitude.
I also think we are closer to (a) war with Russia (over something) than we have been since the early 1960's. For me, that is not a happy thought.
I think Putin is clueless about that reality.
To be frank, I believe there will be war. Such pimple just gotta burst and there is no other way around. You guys have no fear of war because you have never been hurt thanks to nice location. This will be your undoing as you will sleepwalk into something that is not of your business and then it will hurt. Ukraine is not your business., It is vital Russian interest and you must accept this if you want this world to survive.
ReplyDeleteThe importance of Ukraine to Russia is getting even more evident from current US politics.
Reading what you are writing is why I say America lost mind.
I think that if you are having an existential crisis and a cognitive dissonance, which under the conditions of mass hysteria is not surprising, you should leave this board peacefully and go to any board where your lack of any clue on subject matter will be supported. I can name number of those but I am sure you know them--try National Review, you will resonate there with very many. Otherwise, I will first start deleting your ignorant vitriol and butthurt and then, if this will not stop--I will ban you totally. Obviously, you learned nothing from me and you are not equipped for dealing with reality.
ReplyDeleteI'm not even talking about the Ukraine.
ReplyDeleteWe are unhappy about the Ukraine, but not enough to do too much about it.
I think Putin will attempt an overreach, somewhere else, and that will trigger escalating hostilities. I think that is where the danger lies.
I just don't see this ending well.
Yes, your assessment that the US has never been in a war like Russia had experienced does affect our willingness to go to war.
This "relationship" (US/Russia) however is beginning to take on an entirely different feeling, of which I have not "felt" since the early 1980's, and the change has been sudden.
There is no more communication happing anymore and both sides are more than willing to assume the very worst intentions about the other.
I think Putin is missing that Part.
Let's come back to this discussion a bit later today after 'heads have cooled'.
ReplyDeleteRest assured that I am not "trolling" you.
Like you, I see serious dangers ahead.
You need to firstly check who has been the busy body. Not Russia. Putin was watching Olympics and Ukraine coup came as a real surprise to him. he only reacted. If things do not deteriorate because of Ukraine I think things will calm down. Russia has never was looking for troubles anywhere as she is mostly interested in internal development and security along her borders. However, because of real maniacs in power in USA in all branches of power everything can happen.
ReplyDeleteThe core issue is NATO on Russian borders which should have never happened. Unless NATO disintegrates, and I think it will happen, there gonna be war sooner or later. It is just a matter of odds.
In any case, the problem as always US doe snot know what pain is. Europeans know hence they are hesitant.
Hopefully Europe will realize that US and Europe interests differ too much to continue relationship , then everything will be ok.
I think NATO will last as long as Russia does, but not one second more as Russia is the entire reason NATO even exists. Nobody in Eastern Europe has fond memories of being in the Warsaw Pact.
ReplyDeleteRussia instigates an insurgency in the Ukraine and we are the "busy bodies"?
I am intrigued by that statement.
Please explain?
I'm really not here to blast Russia or even Russians, but events over the last several months, especially over the last few weeks had led me to believe that we really are dealing with an "evil empire version 2.0".
I use harsh words in the spirit of honest exchange and not from malice (and I hope that I am not banned for it), but there is a rapidly changing belief here that something has "gone wrong" with Russia and that there can be no further diplomatic "accomplishments" with her as a nation state and that coercive force is the only language she can understand.
What will occur in the meantime will be a policy of containment and then that will be followed by one of "push back".
That will take the form of making Russian less competitive in foreign markets, she will have difficulty in obtaining foreign credit, and other such things that were last done in the days of the Soviet Union.
Essentially, everything you (Russia) are accusing us of doing in your propaganda, we will begin to actually doing for real.
That is the direction that I see things going, and I think that course is now not reversible and is beginning to take on 'messianic' underpinnings, on our side at least.
Now, I do not look forward to such events with excitement or joy, as I must admit that I have a soft spot for Russians and many aspects of Russian culture.
I am sorry to have seen things go the way they are.
I wish all Russians here on this board luck.
Ok, we shall see. I have to remind you, that one cannot enter same river twice. Situation is not what it was. US is not what it used to be. Russia cannot be controlled or blocked the way you see it and Russia did learn few lessons.
ReplyDeleteRegarding busy bodies, it is amazing how brainwashed you are. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afganistan, now Ukraine. What is it if not a busy body especially in places which you cannot find on the map.
Now talking about delivering arms to Kiev junta and do not make mistake. That was illegal coup backed and financed by you in place which had been part of Russia for centuries and is Russia cradle.
You are basically dancing on Russia toes and telling Russia is aggressor?
I think, you actually got yourself into very bad situation and if your leadership continues on this path it might become catastrophic.
Augustus once told that it does not make sense to use golden hook to try and catch fish because if hook is broken no amount of fish would compensate one for this kind of loss.
It is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to catch some fish in murky waters using golden hook for practically no gain, because the smallest possible risk for you is defeat and loss of status to which you are so accustomed and the worst is the whole world annihilation. Tell me you are not some crazy busy bodies who can risk everything sticking your nose where it never belonged in the first place.
I think this conversation is going nowhere.
I hate to admit it, but our own CIA is not smart enough to have engineered the Ukrainian revolution.
ReplyDeleteWe really are not that good.
Are we to apologize for taking down all of your old client states that were headed by some of the greatest monsters and psychopaths of the 20th century?
Saddam Hussein, Kaddafi, Assad (the son is barely hanging on)?
Was the world a better place with them?
Afghanistan was "payback" for Vietnam, we all know that.
What were you doing in Vietnam and Korea I might ask, or Central America as the place was being sprayed with the blood of peasants all through the 1970's and 1980's?
There is still much damage to be undone from the times of communism but Russia seems intent on adding to the "butcher's bill".
Actions have consequences, so please, do not act as if you were Switzerland.
If I am "brainwashed" as you suggest, please point out specifics.
Perhaps you know things I do not, but I am willing to learn.
If you are done speaking with me tonight, then I wish you a pleasant evening.
There is no point to argue with you.
ReplyDeleteLook at what you have done where once was some form of stability there is bloody chaos.
You have no understanding of all those places you invade. You think democracy when you have no one. Yours system is oligarchy masquerading as democracy as if you have any choice or say. You are being fooled and you are completely braiunwashed.
If Russia that is next to Central Asia has nothing to do in Central Asia what you have to do beyond Americas? You have no place neither in Europe , nor in ME. Now you have vital interests on Russian doorsteps. Aren't you crazy?
Brainwashed means you cannot see anybody's else point but yours and being aggressive at that and I would say, Regarding monsters and psychopaths. Those guys whom you mentioned were not angels, but look at yourself. You murdered many times more people, civilians and otherwise than all of them combined. The only difference you have done it with good PR and pretending to do it for good. But as it was told , look at results of your actions. The proof is in the pudding.
However, thankfully I see good trends in where your country is going. namely down the drain. I assume you have few years a decade more to warmonger. Fundamentals are not there anymore for you to sustain it. Hopefully there will be no war but I believe Russia must prepare for the worst as there never was a time when Russian diplomacy or policy was able to avert those who wanted to attack her.
I advice you to check Augustus quote to Tiberius about going fishing with golden hook. It is what US is doing.
You are assuming risks that in case of failure are terminal for your country and possibly the world. tell me you are not crazy.
http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteThis will answer your question.
Thanks for the link Dillon.
ReplyDeleteSure thing. I hope you like the RoR blog and partake in the discussion that takes place in the comments section.
ReplyDeleteSmoothie, you should cool down since Drunk-at-noon expresses points of view which most Americans (I believe) exhibit as well. And your posts are in English not by accident since you probably want to convey your point of view across geographic and ideological boundaries.
ReplyDeleteDrunk-at-noon, please trust me, when I say that Boris Nemtsov was so marginalized in Russia in recent decade that it had no sense whatsoever for Putin to order a hit on him. I know that many Americans think that Putin is just a KGB thug but all his actions prove that he is quite a rational person.
He obviously wanted to kill the man so that a photo could be set up with the Kremlin as a backdrop behind the body....
ReplyDelete